Comments on: Why is Collapse Being Predicted for the United States? (And therefore Canada, too?)

By: uberVU - social comments

uberVU - social comments — Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:21:41 +0000

Social comments and analytics for this post…

This post was mentioned on Reddit by eian: No comments? Is this because it’s rapidly becoming “old news?” Great, I guess everyone is content with spiraling down the drain….

By: PA

PA — Fri, 26 Feb 2010 04:21:01 +0000

“Political elites have been withholding the truth from Americans” and “these same executives block moves to alternatives and spend a great deal of money funding intellectually dishonest ‘think tanks’ to promote market fundamentalism” both take a conspiratorial tone. Furthermore, there are many think tanks that also promote conservation, reductions in green house gases, and bike lanes which are all issues that would not necessarily be associated with “Think Tanks”. These groups are idea factories and their message is one aspect of the advertising culture we find ourselves in…all of these interests are competing for our attention not just “Political Elites”. I am not sure what your argument is, but if you are saying that North America is in for a rude awakening, then I agree. Our culture rewards consumerism, and I am embarrassed by the materialism. I have travelled around the world and nowhere is a culture so boorish and self entitled. We are wasteful and can be very narrow minded.

But we are also industrious and hard working and creative. To say that there is not an effort being made to move us from oil is wrong. Look around, everywhere you see companies working hard, being creative-developing, researching, and bringing to market products that they believe will provide alternatives. I don’t know what you expect? That one day the we will have hydrogen cars -who is going to build the stations? where is the infrastructure? who is going to buy them? how is the market defined? What is occurring today are organic-market driven-steps toward achieving self sufficiency-but they are not building solar panels to unite a country, they build them to make money. I am no right winger, but the reality is that government cant force companies to build products. It can help by providing incentives, but we live in a free market system where people build what the market wants them to build. And if you don’t think the energy companies (yes I have a great distrust them too) want to develop alternative energies, you are narrow minded. The future is about making money and that money is not going to come from oil.

By: elasticsoul

elasticsoul — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:58:24 +0000

PA – You’re reading conspiracy where I said no such thing. It is simply common, and has been throughout history, for elites to attempt to protect their position – typically at the cost of everyone else. As to ‘getting off oil,’ no serious attempt has been made – there are no substitutes for gasoline for cars, diesel for trucks and trains, and jet fuel for aeroplanes that are anywhere near being available in quantities needed. And the subsidies keep flowing to the oil industry; the market has been corrupted and this is the reason we are still hooked on oil.

By: PA

PA — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:15:59 +0000

what this article fails to mention is that if the US goes down, so follows other countries which have built their growth on the US and/or economic principals that are unsustainable. It is true the US is beholden to oil, but oil is the fuel of industry around the world, not just in North America. In China and India, a drivers license is a big deal because of, yes, OIL! I agree, now is the time for change, but this is not a big conspiracy, it is not limited to the US/Canada, and it not being kept secret by some “elite mechanism”. Access to information is greater than it ever was. A lot of smart people have access to a lot of smart research. You should read some of their research and of course be skeptical. But failing to look at the big picture means you will be the first to panic which will put you at a big disadvantage. You will be the guy who says stock up on canned fish without remembering to bring the can opener.

It is a mistake to think that there has been no effort made “to get off oil”. We are a market driven society. Money drives our country. And that is what is driving all the discussions related solar, wind, wave, electric, nuclear, and even coal? How about the TESLA auto company (3 of their execs died in a plane crash last week-sad/setback)? How about what is happening in the midwest with Solar manufacturing? How about the east coast cape cod debates about wind? or even the CLEAN COAL industry? All of these are market driven. No big conspiracy. No puppet master. Stop looking at easy blame and start looking at how you can contribute to any oil shortage. This article doesn’t help! It does nothing except simplify the complex realities we face as individuals, as nations, and as the world.

By: elasticsoul

elasticsoul — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 01:21:50 +0000

Whetam – Idiocy indeed. It’s amazing how many very smart people are doing such foolish things.

Clayton – Thanks. Market fundamentalists is a term used to refer to those who believe the market will solve all problems. In the article, I was referring to the resources that have gone into convincing the average American that the market must be left untouched – even when it is clearly failing. Fundamentalists cling to this belief in the face of all evidence. I am against subsidies in general, although think they will be required to ramp up alt-energy quickly. I agree – had we never subsidised oil, we would not be in this mess today. One thing the market fundies ignore is that markets are invariably corrupted by the power brokers.

By: Clayton Schaefer

Clayton Schaefer — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:42:07 +0000

Insightful piece, and I agree in general that our government has been bought and paid for. However, I think your anger at the so-called “market fundamentalists” is misplaced. Any self respecting market fundamentalist would advocate truth in pricing in the petroleum market. If there weren’t a hidden subsidy amounting to $10+ per gallon of gas (roughly the price of our foreign wars, direct subsidies, preferential treatment and the other activities the USG does for oil companies) we would have been off the texas tea a long time ago.

By: Whetam Gnauckweirst

Whetam Gnauckweirst — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:57:15 +0000

We have a consumer-based economy, which at the same time is sending as many of our jobs overseas as possible. I’m sure there’s a more complex way of phrasing this, but basically the North American economy is based on idiocy.

It’s no surprise that most of Dick Cheney’s portfolio is invested overseas.

“…corruption of the political system by corporate executives…”? More like INFILTRATION.