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	<title>Comments on: Why Most Food Could Never Be “Local” &#8211; What this means in a peak oil world to your food choices, to the 100-mile diet, and to vegetarians</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.briangordon.ca/2010/02/why-most-food-could-never-be-%e2%80%9clocal%e2%80%9d-what-this-means-in-a-peak-oil-world-to-your-food-choices-to-the-100-mile-diet-and-to-vegetarians/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.briangordon.ca/2010/02/why-most-food-could-never-be-%e2%80%9clocal%e2%80%9d-what-this-means-in-a-peak-oil-world-to-your-food-choices-to-the-100-mile-diet-and-to-vegetarians/</link>
	<description>Go Local, Go Sustainable, Now</description>
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		<title>By: Steve Savage</title>
		<link>http://www.briangordon.ca/2010/02/why-most-food-could-never-be-%e2%80%9clocal%e2%80%9d-what-this-means-in-a-peak-oil-world-to-your-food-choices-to-the-100-mile-diet-and-to-vegetarians/comment-page-1/#comment-4870</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Savage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Feb 2011 06:26:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.briangordon.ca/?p=1743#comment-4870</guid>
		<description>I came across your citation of my blog post about Local.  The more I think about it, one of the best options for nutritious fruits and vegetables in cold regions is actually frozen.  Peas, sweet corn, berries, and many vegetables are actually really tasty and nutritious frozen and when you compare the cost in energy and carbon to trying to deliver fresh produce from distant places, they make a lot of sense.  Anyway, this seems like a thoughtful blog trying to wrestle with complex but important issues</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I came across your citation of my blog post about Local.  The more I think about it, one of the best options for nutritious fruits and vegetables in cold regions is actually frozen.  Peas, sweet corn, berries, and many vegetables are actually really tasty and nutritious frozen and when you compare the cost in energy and carbon to trying to deliver fresh produce from distant places, they make a lot of sense.  Anyway, this seems like a thoughtful blog trying to wrestle with complex but important issues</p>
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		<title>By: wayneJ</title>
		<link>http://www.briangordon.ca/2010/02/why-most-food-could-never-be-%e2%80%9clocal%e2%80%9d-what-this-means-in-a-peak-oil-world-to-your-food-choices-to-the-100-mile-diet-and-to-vegetarians/comment-page-1/#comment-4402</link>
		<dc:creator>wayneJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Feb 2011 14:32:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.briangordon.ca/?p=1743#comment-4402</guid>
		<description>When looking at the issue superficially it would appear that eating all foods from a 100 mile radius would help answer both nutritional concerns and energy concerns. 

Aside from the obvious such as a resident of northern Alberta would never have fruit to eat nor fresh vegetables in off-seasons, those who advocate or suggest that society can grow all its food locally fail to understand the economics, and concepts such as relative competitive advantage. 

To begin with large mono culture operations, though not good for the environment, do translate into highly efficient (in terms  of money an energy) operations-so much so that locally grown vegetable and fruit cannot compete on either cost or energy terms. True, moving produce a few thousand miles has a cost, but the  cost per pound of produce becomes insignificant when compared to other input costs. This of course, assumes that Alberta or some other jurisdiction could actually grow its bananas, shrimp, oysters, and other foods that do not spring up naturally in that environment. 

People often complain about free roads, and other subsidies.  I agree that we should probably use subsidies to encourage more green technology, but when people state the roads cost nothing to the trucking industry or select a relatively small figure, $1.6 billion, which sounds large, they really need to check their facts. 

For example, most jurisdictions in North America have heavy gasoline taxes, and those taxes, paid by the trucking industry, more than pay for the roads they use. The subsidy to the oil industry sounds large, but when one looks at the production, revenues, and costs, it becomes a drop in the oil bucket-a rounding error in the government&#039;s books.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When looking at the issue superficially it would appear that eating all foods from a 100 mile radius would help answer both nutritional concerns and energy concerns. </p>
<p>Aside from the obvious such as a resident of northern Alberta would never have fruit to eat nor fresh vegetables in off-seasons, those who advocate or suggest that society can grow all its food locally fail to understand the economics, and concepts such as relative competitive advantage. </p>
<p>To begin with large mono culture operations, though not good for the environment, do translate into highly efficient (in terms  of money an energy) operations-so much so that locally grown vegetable and fruit cannot compete on either cost or energy terms. True, moving produce a few thousand miles has a cost, but the  cost per pound of produce becomes insignificant when compared to other input costs. This of course, assumes that Alberta or some other jurisdiction could actually grow its bananas, shrimp, oysters, and other foods that do not spring up naturally in that environment. </p>
<p>People often complain about free roads, and other subsidies.  I agree that we should probably use subsidies to encourage more green technology, but when people state the roads cost nothing to the trucking industry or select a relatively small figure, $1.6 billion, which sounds large, they really need to check their facts. </p>
<p>For example, most jurisdictions in North America have heavy gasoline taxes, and those taxes, paid by the trucking industry, more than pay for the roads they use. The subsidy to the oil industry sounds large, but when one looks at the production, revenues, and costs, it becomes a drop in the oil bucket-a rounding error in the government&#8217;s books.</p>
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		<title>By: GreenHearted</title>
		<link>http://www.briangordon.ca/2010/02/why-most-food-could-never-be-%e2%80%9clocal%e2%80%9d-what-this-means-in-a-peak-oil-world-to-your-food-choices-to-the-100-mile-diet-and-to-vegetarians/comment-page-1/#comment-704</link>
		<dc:creator>GreenHearted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Apr 2010 05:52:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.briangordon.ca/?p=1743#comment-704</guid>
		<description>I had a good laugh when I read that Canada subsidizes the Alberta tar sands to the tune of $1.68 per year! ;-) I guess that 8-looking B stands for billions of dollars, eh?

Something to keep in mind is that we shouldn&#039;t be comparing a steer to tomatoes in winter. We should be comparing a steer to dried beans in winter — and beans are something that we can grow here in western Canada. Indeed, as you say, people might have to stop eating what they can&#039;t grow themselves without huge inputs of energy and carbon-based fertilizers.

A lovely look at eating what&#039;s in season is Barbara Kingsolvers&#039;s Animal, Vegetable, Miracle. 

BTW, my students grow organic Canadian red fife wheat and we make pizzas from the wheat that they sow, tend, harvest (with kindergarten scissors!), thresh and mill themselves. Best pizza you&#039;ll ever eat! There&#039;s a picture of my students starting their pizza garden at
http://www.greenhearted.org/school-gardens.html.

I suspect that literacy is now overemphasized as the focus of our schools. All students and all teachers should be focusing their learning on food growing. When climate change meets peak oil, look out!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had a good laugh when I read that Canada subsidizes the Alberta tar sands to the tune of $1.68 per year! <img src='http://www.briangordon.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  I guess that 8-looking B stands for billions of dollars, eh?</p>
<p>Something to keep in mind is that we shouldn&#8217;t be comparing a steer to tomatoes in winter. We should be comparing a steer to dried beans in winter — and beans are something that we can grow here in western Canada. Indeed, as you say, people might have to stop eating what they can&#8217;t grow themselves without huge inputs of energy and carbon-based fertilizers.</p>
<p>A lovely look at eating what&#8217;s in season is Barbara Kingsolvers&#8217;s Animal, Vegetable, Miracle. </p>
<p>BTW, my students grow organic Canadian red fife wheat and we make pizzas from the wheat that they sow, tend, harvest (with kindergarten scissors!), thresh and mill themselves. Best pizza you&#8217;ll ever eat! There&#8217;s a picture of my students starting their pizza garden at<br />
<a href="http://www.greenhearted.org/school-gardens.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.greenhearted.org/school-gardens.html</a>.</p>
<p>I suspect that literacy is now overemphasized as the focus of our schools. All students and all teachers should be focusing their learning on food growing. When climate change meets peak oil, look out!</p>
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		<title>By: elasticsoul</title>
		<link>http://www.briangordon.ca/2010/02/why-most-food-could-never-be-%e2%80%9clocal%e2%80%9d-what-this-means-in-a-peak-oil-world-to-your-food-choices-to-the-100-mile-diet-and-to-vegetarians/comment-page-1/#comment-499</link>
		<dc:creator>elasticsoul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.briangordon.ca/?p=1743#comment-499</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the thoughtful response, pa. Most of the articles tend to be somewhat gloomy because that&#039;s the reality we face on our current path. I am working away on The Way Home, which provides a sustainable society as an alternative. I also occasionally post solutions, or things individuals and small communities can do to prepare. 

Leadership will have to come from the grassroots, I entirely agree. Too much rot at the top, and we need neighbour-convincing-neighbour rather than someone at the top simply ordering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the thoughtful response, pa. Most of the articles tend to be somewhat gloomy because that&#8217;s the reality we face on our current path. I am working away on The Way Home, which provides a sustainable society as an alternative. I also occasionally post solutions, or things individuals and small communities can do to prepare. </p>
<p>Leadership will have to come from the grassroots, I entirely agree. Too much rot at the top, and we need neighbour-convincing-neighbour rather than someone at the top simply ordering.</p>
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		<title>By: pa</title>
		<link>http://www.briangordon.ca/2010/02/why-most-food-could-never-be-%e2%80%9clocal%e2%80%9d-what-this-means-in-a-peak-oil-world-to-your-food-choices-to-the-100-mile-diet-and-to-vegetarians/comment-page-1/#comment-496</link>
		<dc:creator>pa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 05:52:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.briangordon.ca/?p=1743#comment-496</guid>
		<description>I agree with the spirit of the post, even before clicking the link to the &quot;very helpful charts and tables and such&quot;.   But you are not seeing everything that is happening.  We are lucky in the US because Barack and Michelle Obama believe in locally grown food, in quality food supplies, and in fighting obesity (they all go hand in hand).  When have you ever heard food sustainability being discussed by a president prior to the current administration?  You could not ask for a more influential office in the US Democracy.

Yes, you have a point about oil, we get that!  The people who come to your site come here because they know that you have an understanding of oil and its impact on our daily lives.  But the big picture is that change is occurring, and in a democracy, change does not happen from the top down, it occurs from the bottom up.  Give this momentum a chance, research the issues, provide links to grass roots orgs and White House docs, and then become a voice for change.   Right now, it seems like all you care about is providing a doom and gloom scenario without any objective (or subjective) way for readers to be heard outside of this forum.  For a former political candidate, that doesn&#039;t sound like leading.  It sounds like Glen Beck. 

BTW, Interesting that the link &quot;two of the primary reasons people go veg&quot; redirects to a page on your website that is &quot;The 4 reasons people go vegetarian&quot;.  Did you ever think that people are vegetarians because it just tastes better?   That&#039;s why I don&#039;t eat meat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the spirit of the post, even before clicking the link to the &#8220;very helpful charts and tables and such&#8221;.   But you are not seeing everything that is happening.  We are lucky in the US because Barack and Michelle Obama believe in locally grown food, in quality food supplies, and in fighting obesity (they all go hand in hand).  When have you ever heard food sustainability being discussed by a president prior to the current administration?  You could not ask for a more influential office in the US Democracy.</p>
<p>Yes, you have a point about oil, we get that!  The people who come to your site come here because they know that you have an understanding of oil and its impact on our daily lives.  But the big picture is that change is occurring, and in a democracy, change does not happen from the top down, it occurs from the bottom up.  Give this momentum a chance, research the issues, provide links to grass roots orgs and White House docs, and then become a voice for change.   Right now, it seems like all you care about is providing a doom and gloom scenario without any objective (or subjective) way for readers to be heard outside of this forum.  For a former political candidate, that doesn&#8217;t sound like leading.  It sounds like Glen Beck. </p>
<p>BTW, Interesting that the link &#8220;two of the primary reasons people go veg&#8221; redirects to a page on your website that is &#8220;The 4 reasons people go vegetarian&#8221;.  Did you ever think that people are vegetarians because it just tastes better?   That&#8217;s why I don&#8217;t eat meat.</p>
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		<title>By: How Will Governments Respond to “Peak Oil?” &#124; Go Green or Die</title>
		<link>http://www.briangordon.ca/2010/02/why-most-food-could-never-be-%e2%80%9clocal%e2%80%9d-what-this-means-in-a-peak-oil-world-to-your-food-choices-to-the-100-mile-diet-and-to-vegetarians/comment-page-1/#comment-398</link>
		<dc:creator>How Will Governments Respond to “Peak Oil?” &#124; Go Green or Die</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:20:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.briangordon.ca/?p=1743#comment-398</guid>
		<description>[...] The next final book describes the outcome of an experiment that took off and became wildy popular: The 100-mile diet. The authors attempted to live only on foods grown within 100 miles of their home. They were motivated by concerns about climate change, but in reality peak oil is going to strike first and make the 100-mile diet a necessity rather than an option. (I discussed some serious concerns about this even being possible today in Why Most Food Could Never Be “Local” – What this means in a peak oil world to your food choice....) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The next final book describes the outcome of an experiment that took off and became wildy popular: The 100-mile diet. The authors attempted to live only on foods grown within 100 miles of their home. They were motivated by concerns about climate change, but in reality peak oil is going to strike first and make the 100-mile diet a necessity rather than an option. (I discussed some serious concerns about this even being possible today in Why Most Food Could Never Be “Local” – What this means in a peak oil world to your food choice&#8230;.) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: uberVU - social comments</title>
		<link>http://www.briangordon.ca/2010/02/why-most-food-could-never-be-%e2%80%9clocal%e2%80%9d-what-this-means-in-a-peak-oil-world-to-your-food-choices-to-the-100-mile-diet-and-to-vegetarians/comment-page-1/#comment-355</link>
		<dc:creator>uberVU - social comments</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.briangordon.ca/?p=1743#comment-355</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Social comments and analytics for this post...&lt;/strong&gt;

This post was mentioned on Twitter by SarahsWAHM: Why Most Food Could Never Be Local - And what that means &#124; Go ...: What I was able to find was Anita&#039;s Organic Gra... http://bit.ly/9CD70v...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Social comments and analytics for this post&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>This post was mentioned on Twitter by SarahsWAHM: Why Most Food Could Never Be Local &#8211; And what that means | Go &#8230;: What I was able to find was Anita&#8217;s Organic Gra&#8230; <a href="http://bit.ly/9CD70v.." rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/9CD70v..</a>.</p>
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